Dear Readers
(TW abuse apologist quotes)
I can't remember the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" but it was probably an episode of the Simpsons where I first heard it. I think we all know what it means, persuasion is a much more effective tool of persuading others than force.
Sadly, in the western world in recent years we seem to have forgotten this basic fact. Part of the problem has been the internet, as well as news outlets looking for outrage for good copy, and reality TV of the 2000s giving people a sense of entitlement to vote on what they can and cannot see and hear (the Jade Goody controversy of 2007 and Russell Brand prank call of 2008 arguably early signs of this) and calling it "democracy in free speech" (which is basically mob rule). With aggressive so-called "woke" types and their right wing Alt-right counterparts, there's an intense desire still around to see other points of view as morally unacceptable. As someone who deals with anxiety and depression on a regular basis - and anyone suffering the same will probably know what I mean - it makes interacting with friends in social media doubly stressful.
Issues like Brexit here in the UK and the era of President Donald Trump have been so divisive, and when faced with people reacting with my suggestions of being more willing to discuss and at least tolerate certain points of view by antagonistic responses, I dropped them as friends because I just wasn't certain if I could trust them or not anymore (for all I knew, if I stepped out of line or something was misinterpreted, my own friends could become my enemies, an idea that I found frightening).
Of course, nobody is exempt from this attitude, and no matter who you are, such an attitude seems to exist among people who agree with almost any points of view, including our own.
One recent example I came across was a woman on twitter among my followers who doubted that Johnny Depp was innocent and believed that he was just as guilty as she was. Now, I couldn't disagree more, I think that the evidence against him was laughable, and the UK court verdict was based on the fact that libel laws sided with her on the grounds that it was considered a strong possibility that he acted as such. However, I had no desire to just badmouth her since she was so supportive of male abuse victims anyway, I thought it'd be unwise and unfair to just drive her away.
However, some of my followers told me that she wasn't on our side because she believed Johnny Depp to be as guilty as Amber Heard. I feel that this was unfair, and just another symptom of "if you're not with us, you're a terrible person" malarkey that we've seen too much of since 2013-2014. I thought to myself "you know, maybe we'd be able to actually persuade her to change her mind or at least let her see our point of view rather than just attack her"/
I also want to bring to your attention an exchange I had with someone on a comments section on a YouTube video regarding a genderflipped social experiment regarding domestic violence. I labelled the other person as 'Nikki' and my own comments as 'IM'. Some of the things I said I probably would word differently, but I'll put in a commentary in bold as well to give my current POV on this conversation that this person and I had.
NIKKI: 'The woman was an actress, the man was an actor. They both did the same thing. Yet vitriolic comments against the woman actress, male actor gets off Scott free. The only person who did the right thing was the woman who stepped in - no comment that she was a bit of a hero. Feminism has a long way to go. I can see why she might be frustrated, feeling that "hold on, a woman stepped up to intervene, why assume that all women are like the staged female abuser?" The simple answer is that it's not the point of the social experiment, and there are plenty of both genders (& other) who'd just look the other way as we see in various similar videos.
IM: From my experience, the majority of feminism almost certainly sides with her. They don't give a shit about male abuse victims/survivors and their attitudes are appalling, as a male abuse survivor the things I've heard from feminists about female on male abuse would shock you. Examples such as (TW) "Until men stop raping women worldwide I'll have no sympathy" or "A man never deserves pity for being raped..it was just a little lesson in what it's like to be treated as an object" just for starters (trust me, I've got tons more of these).
NIKKI: 'Very sorry for anyone who is a victim of abuse. And certainly no victim should be treated badly. However, many of the comments on this post - which relates to a staged event where male and female actors do the same thing are incredibly vicious towards the actress - but no comment on the man. Given this is staged, surely the question should be why was it only one woman that stepped in to stop the violence? That probably depends more on the individual than the gender dynamics, but like I said, that's not really the main point of the experiment. On three separate occasions I have stepped in where I have seen children being physically abused - on each occasion men were around and did nothing. And I've experienced times when women did nothing too. On one occasion a woman contacted the police to intervene when the abuser turned on me and said abuser was arrested - male police officers. All of us have the opportunity to step in and stop abuse and I have no interest in those who would ridicule a victim, not OK - Like I said[,] sorry you experienced that but as for comments inferring all feminists are anti male..it makes you sound like you are still angry (that's your right) (I agree, being told that as a man you deserve to be abused by a woman as "payback" or aren't a proper victim deserving support and empathy, does give one the right to be angry) but it lessens the credibility of your argument (I disagree with this, but it depends on what is said and how, if I fuck up, I fuck up)..and you come off as having the same angry energy you are accusing feminists of having (probably because I have)..maybe the women who have responded badly to you are also victims of abuse and that's why they're reacting badly - that type of anger usually has far more to do with unprocessed pain than the person the anger is directed at (probably right - underlying factors are the reason for any form of human communication, but it's not an excuse). Good luck to you.'
IM: I understand, and I appreciate your answer, it's very interesting and coherent and has a few things to consider.
IM: When it comes to stepping in, it's difficult to say, for example, people aren't confident in recognising abuse when they see it or knowing what to do when they do without making things worse for them or the victim. (I think inaction by other men in the past from knowing about this is because of lack of understanding or knowledge of what to look out for and how to react appropriately with minimum risk) I think that it'd be more productive if people were taught what to look out for and how to de-escalate. What really gets on some people's wicks - including yours truly - is when you see a woman abuse a man in public and seeing people giggle or cheer her on.
NIKKI: I agree, re-educating people so they are better able to see abuse and also teaching how to manage - social awakening can be a wonderful thing. (I agree too, just we're not seeing it for male abuse victims atm.) I relate to what you are saying re when people laugh at abuse. Women get this a lot with sexual harassment. (Basically bullying.) TBH I was super impressed with how the majority of men stepped up re the metoo movement (first time I've heard anyone say this - good though!), it felt like finally the light had been switched on and the shady behaviour was called out for what it was. (Again, good that it is, but it's only called out for female victims, not male victims.)
IM: Yeah, you're right. I've always suspected as such. And nobody should be laughed at regarding sexual harassment. From my experience I feel that people are more tolerant of it happening to men than women, probably through blindness, but I usually get my hackles raised when I hear people justifying or ignoring it or saying men deserve it as just desserts for what happens to women (which just isn't true).
That's [majority of men stepping up] heartening to hear and I'm very pleased you say so. Most men probably didn't notice because the sort of dirt bags who would do such a thing almost certainly do so either behind closed doors (that's why nonce wings exist in prisons, because even the worst of the worst and probably the world's best examples of so-called "toxic masculinity" find such behaviour abhorrent) or with their own cliques in tow, but I think what has improved is greater clarity and means to tackle it for women (and for men to recognise it more easily), which is a good step. Since I only ever came across that behaviour towards women twice in my time (once outside a nightclub with a girl I knew being followed by a really nasty piece of work and coming to me for help, and a milder version with a group of lads I work with pulling a girl around by the arm a bit too much for my liking), I've long suspected that such harassers have done so on the sly where nobody can see, or only with people too scared or compliant to stop them (certainly was true with people who sexually harassed me when I was a teenager).
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that female victims of abuse/harassment have better means to tackle the problem. My concern is that I hope that such a step can be taken for men who experienced the same because I meet an increasing number of men daily telling me that they've been sexually harassed or abused by a female at some point, and as a society we really need to recognise it and take it much more seriously than we do now.
NIKKI: I feel your frustration in terms of dismissal of abuse. There is a perception gap (totally agree with this), which results from what people can believe of people..most abusers come across as normal, and often charming - they have to be or they wouldn't get away with it. So the victim is not believed because a normal person would not do that...it is the nature of the abuse dynamic. (Like I like to say, we don't live in a rape culture, we live in a rape ignorance culture.) I become concerned when people are focusing on abuse as a competitively male or female problem. (Kind of what I'm getting at, I probably do it a bit myself but probably not without reason because I know that male abuse victims are undersupported - there's no #MeToo movement for them.) Having said that, for a lot of women, it is hard to hear men hold up a few personal experiences of abuse and then be told it is as bad for all males as it is for females - simply because most women have had more experiences than they can count by the time they are 30 and they know the statistics back this up (probably due to the perception gap). This is not to say all of them end as hospitalizations but I am talking about experiences that leave the victim in fear - unable to sleep, taking counter measures for safety (truthfully, awful though these described experiences are, they don't cover the entirety of abuse, which exists in other forms as well)...and 90% of this women don't talk about, because it is business as usual (yeah, that perception is an appalling one to carry about.). Simply put, 'it is the female right of passage' (!!!) - those were the words said to me when I was talking about significant abuse to another woman, it was horrid to hear but she's right, and at the same time it diminished abuse in an unintentionally toxic way (I agree). Abuse is personal and when it happens to you and when you're not believed/or people just don't get it - this is a second compound injury (I agree). So it's bad for all victims, and the reality is that unless someone sees it happen and deems it to be bad and/or you end up in hospital with serious injuries the likelihood is that you won't be believed - irrespective of your gender - not because people are bad, but because people don't want to believe it (especially if the abuser is a friend or someone they respect). The only real difference in gender seems to be that women know that odds are they won't be believed/taken seriously (sadly true, and they underreport). In contrast, when men aren't believed, many assume if they were a woman they would've been believed/taken seriously - the statistics do not back this up - most abuse is not reported and when it is it's not taken further (I respond to this below). And the common experience of victims is being ridiculed, not being believed, belittled, blamed, shamed, silenced, etc (absolutely). And the horrid thing for women is they have to listen that's spread around that women are believed..and they know better (it's not a well thought out claim to make, what would be better to say would be that women are often not believed or taken seriously, and men abused by women are even more unlikely to be believed, which is saying a lot). I feel strongly that, while it's an issue that statistically more women are victims of abuse, it is as important to see abuse as a stand alone issue and seek to understand its nature without getting into competitive gender issues (true, unfortunately mainstream feminism hasn't let this toxic idea go and doesn't appear to want to) - to use an analogy otherwise we are like a doctor who keeps treating the cuts, bruises, broken bones and nervous disposition of the patient while never asking the patient about the underlying cause (Agreed. For example, I believe that bullshit rhetoric about so-called "toxic masculinity", "rape culture" and "patriarchy" cover up the fact that abusers are a minority but something's snapped in their minds, in some cases through abuse experiences of their own that they've internalized such as Kristin Piper's son on Dr Phil https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7z32sns6u6afQ_6-ulNzxA/videos) and just one abuser will likely target multiple victims (Harvey Weinstein had a count of 127 women he'd victimised, and Bill Cosby over 60).
IM: I can understand what you say, nobody deserves to go through that sort of stress or assume that abuse is normal. I'm sure that such women find it confusing and bewildering to hear about male abuse victims to say the least. And I would agree that actual lethal abuse appears more often as male on female (just to reiterate, I'm referring to how it appears in the records, that male on female abuse just gets recorded more often, not that it barely happens).
From the perspective of a male abuse victim, the intention [probably] isn't to dismiss what happens to those women. More like when you're a man and you've gone through such a thing there's no reference to really understand what happened to you. You're not told that it can happen to men as well so you think that you're the only man that's ever happened to, and that something must be desperately, terribly wrong with you as a man, that it's your fault or that you did something to deserve it. When you realise that basically society has lied to you then you become desperate for more people to recognise it, especially since abuse doesn't just come out in the form of sexual assault or lethal violence, it comes also as mental torment, emotional mistreatment, financial manipulation and so on. It certainly appears to me that [male] violence is more obvious because it's much more blatant but female violence is more latent and more subtle, so harder for people to spot. When you're told that as a man you're collectively responsible for abusers, told that you have it easy, your abusers weren't women unless they were acting in self defence, called a crybaby or woman-hater while also battling daily trauma and pain from your own abusive experiences it kicks you when you're already down, kind of similar in a way to how you said women feel about other people telling them that women are always believed. It also confirms in your mind that you won't be believed and makes you worry that people will also take any abuse that happens to you as karma for abuse of women.
Guys who say that women are always believed are probably misguidedly basing that on the fact that abuse of women has some form of recognition by society in the sense that while societal ignorance has no doubt done immeasurable harm to abused women, people at some level know that it exists, and the idea of a woman being abused by a man is more convincing to them than vice versa. Female on male abuse however is regarded as something of a joke, or at least if someone jokes about female abuse victims then people will come down very heavily on it. Male abuse victims you can pretty much mock to your heart's content and most of the time get off Scott-free (e.g. Bill Maher, Tina Fey, Melissa McCarthy) because society as a whole doesn't yet realise that it's a reality.
Truth be told, it seems to me that abuse of females and abuse of males are at similar levels but they manifest in different ways, and both men and women (not sure about the experience of any other genders) face ignorance from people telling them about their reality that they know by experience is different.
I bring this conversation up because since I didn't just verbally attack Nikki full-on and put her on the defensive, we were both able to offer our own perspectives and see what it was like to be in the other person's shoes (far more effectively than any high-heel protest, pussy march or slutwalk).
As my readers, you may disagree with some of either of our points (which is OK), you may think that I stuck my foot in it with a crap argument/was too compliant, or you might write Nikki off as talking bollocks and word salad. The point isn't so much the argument itself, but the fact that we were able to have a discussion and share our own points of view. That wouldn't have happened if we just started insulting one another.
When advocating for male abuse victims, we need to show that we are behind female abuse victims (no, not fakers like Amber Heard, I mean like Ambra Guiterrez and Natassia Malthe) and these insights of people with different points of view are invaluable to us. I'm sure that many of my female followers will concur about assuming that as a female, sexual harassment/assault to have happened frequently before the age of 30, so it's worth addressing that experience while still arguing that we still consider female on male abuse to be underreported, under-recognised and the victims to be under-supported (after all, compassion and empathy isn't a finite resource).
Sometimes we do need to stir things up, get people's attention and get people talking. Sometimes there are shitty abuse (of males) apologists and abuse (of males) denialists that we have to challenge and show that such ideas will be challenged. But sometimes, if someone holds a different point of view, attacking them is no good if they're open to listening. If they're being rude and unpleasant and just set in their ways then forget it.
However, let's not go down the road of cancel culture. Let's be a bit more careful and empathetic with people we might be able to open up, not merely to be nice, but because if we do, the more allies we get and the more success we enjoy.
Think about it.
Sincerely,
The Invisible Man